I agree with most of the points you mentioned, except where you want us to “focus” only Frappe/ERPNext. List of things that Frappe/ERPNext need doesn’t end.
This doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t try new things. (DataTable and Charts are examples)
This is as difficult to comprehend as it is to follow. A team of ~15 developers can only do so much.
Thanks for the replies. Again I want to be careful that this is not understood as negative criticism but as suggestions for what direction we should take and what needs to be focused on.
Seriously every discussion between me and Rushabh has been me implementing features and Rushabh telling me to just make the switch and focusing on whats essential first.
So I am trying to maybe help give that focus to a rebooted foundation by those suggestions.
Yes, nobody (me included) does so consequentially. This is a shame! I have noticed that in the past when I really push for something and do my homework things actually get done (Item Price, Blanket Order, Amending PO, etc.) and I am grateful for the time invested by Rushabh and Nabin and the whole Frappe team.
I am not and no one should demand anything unless they are in a service contract. My discussion point was more about what might differentiate the foundation from frappe. You as a company are free to do whatever you want and you can prioritize whatever you want. The problem is that you are almos the only one contributing significant code to the project even though contributions have picked up.
Yes, you give extremely liberal access to those who have contributed in the past. I can write frappe blog posts, administer the forum, I can even merge PR into Frappe develop etc. This is a good basic ingredient to community engagement.
Yes, DataTable and Charts are perfect examples of something that lifted the project and that were really good contributions. I also believe that frappe.js is trailblazing! Yet at the very moment (but maybe in the future) that doesn’t help anyone using the framework.
This can be directed right back at us: practice as you preach! We have so much undocumented and bad code ourselves. I know that and we are trying to do better, as you do!
ISorry @dominik I didn’t want to pick on anyone. Its just that over the last few weeks there have been a lot of personal attacks on such issues and some of the new stuff we have been doing.
For better or worse the community must understand Frappe’s aspirations and vision for the product. We are the community’s biggest strength. If we want to dilute Frappe, that will happen with other strong contributors taking lead. That will happen with time.
Cutting (or aiming to) Frappe’s wings is not a healthy option. Our past experiments have been very successful in terms of pushing ERPNext forward. Infact a couple of things we experimented in frappejs will help in fixing some deep issues in frappe.
There are lots of things like documentation where everyone can easily pitch in.
Version 10 is very very stable, infact someone just commended us for that.
Let everyone make a positive contribution. For sure, call when we fail (for example not responding to PRs quick enough). Or if a feature is not fully baked (like the module drop down). But please don’t try and slow us down 
Rather build flanks where we are weak. So we all win.
@rmehta everything you are working on makes perfect sense to me. I am excited about frappe.js and I am far from criticising any of it in principle. I understand what you are trying to achieve and I am excited to be on this journey with you and your team. Hub has been criticised but I think it is innovative and you hired the right team!
The other question is one of timing. Personally, as an enterprise user at ESO I would like to see project management before Hub (as one example). But you are right, if it is important we need to take leadership.
You keep up the good work and don’t let anyone slow you down. Let’s try to see what the community wants, lets prioritize it and see if we can get it done.
@JayRam, when would you be able to give further guidance on this. I saw several interesting submission of ideas with few people volunteered to lead the module.
I’m really excited to see this moving forward as planned.
_Liyakat
Preach!
I am of the opinion that Frappe (the business) should follow where business opportunities leads it and not be beholden to an unprofitable ideal. As far as I’m concerned, the most damaging thing Frappe could do would be to go out of business; they direct 95% of the momentum of the community and there’d be a very broken product to maintain if Frappe were to cease existence. I don’t say this to cause alarm, but I think too often their contribution is taken for granted. There is a haunted graveyard of hundreds of half baked and failed business softwares, open source or not, while ERPNext is very much alive and well.
And the idea of demanding some for free from an open source application is indeed ludicrous. But time is not free and ultimately all contributions become business decisions, at the individual or enterprise level. Somebody is paying somebody.
This is great to hear and it gets to a truth above iterative design that Rushabh is referring to and that Dominik (and a lot of other people) are missing. This product is not stateful. It will never be good enough for somebody, and certainly not everybody. Though the second time you rebuilt it’s better. It’s even better the third time. “Stable” means that it doesn’t have all the things you asked for. It will literally never be “done”. So stop asking for it to be “done”.
The demands of the community will always be beyond what the core team can reasonably accomplish, mostly because the creativity of business people (as humans) is unlimited. Rushabh is right to say “if you want it, built it and give it back” but that also requires real work from the people contributing it and I think that’s where we kind of lose our heads as a community; on the whole we’re very badly organized when it comes to giving back. The standards required by Frappe for contribution should only become more strict over time, because you’re messing with people’s businesses and their lives. This software is not a toy.
To that point, I think organizing at the module level is a great place to start. @Tropicalrambler, @vjFaLk, and @RohanB I have had weekly calls for the last two months around the Agriculture module and actual progress around the group effort is happening. We’re over the first hump of design problems and things are starting to come together. Too soon to announce details or specifics, but those that are interested can follow some of the progress here.
For those that think “that’s great but the Agriculture module is a waste of time”: we’re more organized than you and I challenge you to get your module’s act together. You can do it, I know you can.
As am I.
I could not agree more. What can’t be overemphasized -
Frappe’s only obligation is to their (paying) clients, employee staff and shareholders; the only path they must identify and tread is the one they opt for to grow and sustain themselves as a business.
Their generous efforts to support the ERPNext community at large is without question voluntary and no obligation whatsoever. For them to fulfil harassing demands for accountability could exhaust their goodwill and imperil their existence, particularly given their natural commitment and dedicated leadership that originated ERPNext.
IMO the Foundation must shoulder primary responsibility to serve the growing throngs of grassroots community who seek basic help to get started. Frappe surely is entitled to respite and independence from that unmet need that they have felt compelled to serve up to now.
Great point John.
Could please list them as bullets, so that we all can incorporate into the Roadmap?
_Liyakat
There is no “secret sauce” in ERPNext - I am sure all of you who self-deploy have also experienced it, because it is the philosophy to be 100% open.
We expect the same from the community. I see there are great ideas floating around in the forums etc, and it pains to see that effort is not made to bring them back into the core.
Also think about the stage of the project. We are maybe 60% there, but there is lots to be done. Maybe once the project reaches 90% mark, then there won’t be an expectation of contribution.
Right now there are lots of areas, lot of people can contribute. And lot of you are are doing so. So many people are already helping out on the forum.
More help could be:
We don’t expect people to go out of the way to get things done, but pick something that can be fix with very little effort.
In my personal experience, whenever I am working on some feature, I always find something adjacent to fix. It may increase the scope of the project by say 5% but since you are “in the context” its easy to fix it.
The hardest part as a developer is to switch context into some piece of code and then fix it. If you are already “invested” in the context, its much easier to fix something than getting into some fix cold.
Another big factor is motivation. If while testing, I discover an unrelated bug, I have more motivation to fix it because I have discovered it.
ERPNext is already a massive project, hence we need more people to do housekeeping when they get a chance. It does not have to be explicit, just make it a part of your regular workflow.
Its just small things that make us feel as a community, not unlike any other civic community 
This is good one, motivating. Thanks Rushabh for writing this one.
How do we quickly fix this? I create GitHub issue when I find something, is that ok? or something more could be done?
I believe using GitHub (specific to ERPNext): navigation to various repos and where to find what, for a non-programmer like me is a task. Maybe a quick webinar by someone from your team will help many of us, not familiar with GitHub.
_Liyakat
We have 18 responses. In addition we have whole bunch of inputs. If you want to be heard, you have time till Monday morning to respond. Here’s the link to the form:
You have time till Monday morning (any timezone) to respond.
I am onto consolidating the responses. 2 Days late, but hope to get back on schedule.
Volunteers, please stand by. Need your help and involvement.
Cheers
Jay
You know here in China, some of the famous web site such as google has been blocked, except publish the consolidated content via google site, is it possible also to copy to this post?
thanks.
Sure! Will post the consolidated inputs here as soon as it is ready. Please give me a few days to consolidate things.
Thanks
Jay
Hi, i did click on ‘improve this page’ and it takes me to GitHub repo. But it does not seems to allowing direct amend.
Is there something to be done at this sections.
The pencil icon. Clicking on that will let you edit the file:
https://help.github.com/articles/editing-files-in-your-repository/
Then you submit and it creates a PR which will be reviewed by a member of Frappe team.
I’ve done a few of these myself as a non developer and it’s quite easy really 
