Discounts

Hi there!

We’re struggling to meet requirements of auditors and now we’re stuck with discount issue. We need it to be shown in the invoice (as total discount amount) and we also need it to be accounted as expense, so we can print ledger of discounts. We’re using discount column and find it very comfortable, because we often have different discounts in one invoice. Unfortunately this way doesn’t give us possibility to see total discount and also to make discount ledger. 
One solution could be to put discount line into Taxes and Charges, put actual type and tick Tax included in Basic Rate, but the program doesn’t allow this. 
Kindly suggest some solution.

Best wishes,
Slava



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Slava,

The later work solution of adding a row in Tax and Other charges table should work for you. In Sales Tax & Other Charges master, you can only select Accounts of two types. Tax and Chargeable. Expense account is not available for selection on Sales but in Purchase tax master.

Hence, the Account Type of Discount ledger created under Expense Group should be "Chargeable". You can change the Account Type from the ledger master. Click on ledger and Edit to change it's account type.

http://erpnext.com/manage-accounts

Hope this helps.



On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 5:13 PM, Slava <as...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi there!
We're struggling to meet requirements of auditors and now we're stuck with discount issue. We need it to be shown in the invoice (as total discount amount) and we also need it to be accounted as expense, so we can print ledger of discounts. We're using discount column and find it very comfortable, because we often have different discounts in one invoice. Unfortunately this way doesn't give us possibility to see total discount and also to make discount ledger.
One solution could be to put discount line into Taxes and Charges, put actual type and tick Tax included in Basic Rate, but the program doesn't allow this.
Kindly suggest some solution.

Best wishes,
Slava



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Thanks and Regards,

Umair Sayyed
www.erpnext.com
Hi Slava,

You can make a report to get the total discount value for each Invoice. 

You can use a query like:
select name, (
select qty * (ifnull(ref_rate, 0) - ifnull(base_ref_rate, 0)) 
from `tabSales Invoice Item` 
where `tabSales Invoice Item`.parent = `tabSales Invoice`.name
) from `tabSales Invoice` where docstatus=1

You can then create a Journal Voucher to book the total as an expense.

This seems, to me, a much simpler solution, unless you want to show the discount values in the Sales Invoice itself.

Thanks,
Anand.


On 10-Jun-2013, at 5:13 PM, Slava <as...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi there!
We're struggling to meet requirements of auditors and now we're stuck with discount issue. We need it to be shown in the invoice (as total discount amount) and we also need it to be accounted as expense, so we can print ledger of discounts. We're using discount column and find it very comfortable, because we often have different discounts in one invoice. Unfortunately this way doesn't give us possibility to see total discount and also to make discount ledger. 
One solution could be to put discount line into Taxes and Charges, put actual type and tick Tax included in Basic Rate, but the program doesn't allow this. 
Kindly suggest some solution.

Best wishes,
Slava



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Hi Slava,

Oops! Incorrect fields. Please find the corrected query here: http://pastebin.com/0TbKq8FG

Thanks,
Anand.

On 10-Jun-2013, at 5:29 PM, Anand Doshi <an...@iwebnotes.com> wrote:

select name, (
select qty * (ifnull(ref_rate, 0) - ifnull(base_ref_rate, 0)) 
from `tabSales Invoice Item` 
where `tabSales Invoice Item`.parent = `tabSales Invoice`.name
) from `tabSales Invoice` where docstatus=1



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Dear Umar,

Account type was not a problem, it was Chargeable. The problem is that the software doesn’t allow to choose Actual Type and Tax included in Basic Rate at the same time. I get a message < ‘Is this Tax included in Basic Rate?’ (i.e. Inclusive Price) is only valid for charges of type: * On Net Total * On Previous Row Amount * On Previous Row Total>. On Net Total we can’t use because lines have different discounts.
And also if this box is ticked, discount will be not shown in the print form. Can these things be solved somehow?

Thanks,
Slava



On Monday, June 10, 2013 5:28:06 PM UTC+5:30, Umair Sayyed wrote:
Slava,

The later work solution of adding a row in Tax and Other charges table should work for you. In Sales Tax & Other Charges master, you can only select Accounts of two types. Tax and Chargeable. Expense account is not available for selection on Sales but in Purchase tax master.


Hence, the Account Type of Discount ledger created under Expense Group should be “Chargeable”. You can change the Account Type from the ledger master. Click on ledger and Edit to change it’s account type.



Hope this helps.




On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 5:13 PM, Slava <as…@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi there!
We’re struggling to meet requirements of auditors and now we’re stuck with discount issue. We need it to be shown in the invoice (as total discount amount) and we also need it to be accounted as expense, so we can print ledger of discounts. We’re using discount column and find it very comfortable, because we often have different discounts in one invoice. Unfortunately this way doesn’t give us possibility to see total discount and also to make discount ledger. 
One solution could be to put discount line into Taxes and Charges, put actual type and tick Tax included in Basic Rate, but the program doesn't allow this. 
Kindly suggest some solution.

Best wishes,
Slava



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Thanks and Regards,

Umair Sayyed
www.erpnext.com



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Hi Slava,

Functionally tax is always applicable on Net Total, Preview Row Total and Previous Row Amount. Tax Inclusive feature is available for these option and not available for Actual expense.

When check Include Tax in Basic Price, it updates the item's basic rate by the % of tax mentioned. Since we are entering discount in Actual, system cannot understand how to distribute it among multiple items.

If you are using Inclusive Tax feature, then discussed workaround for wholesome discount won't work. You should mention discount applicable on item level only.



On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 10:51 AM, Slava <as...@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Umar,
Account type was not a problem, it was Chargeable. The problem is that the software doesn't allow to choose Actual Type and Tax included in Basic Rate at the same time. I get a message < 'Is this Tax included in Basic Rate?' (i.e. Inclusive Price) is only valid for charges of type: * On Net Total * On Previous Row Amount * On Previous Row Total>. On Net Total we can't use because lines have different discounts.
And also if this box is ticked, discount will be not shown in the print form. Can these things be solved somehow?

Thanks,
Slava



On Monday, June 10, 2013 5:28:06 PM UTC+5:30, Umair Sayyed wrote:
Slava,

The later work solution of adding a row in Tax and Other charges table should work for you. In Sales Tax & Other Charges master, you can only select Accounts of two types. Tax and Chargeable. Expense account is not available for selection on Sales but in Purchase tax master.


Hence, the Account Type of Discount ledger created under Expense Group should be "Chargeable". You can change the Account Type from the ledger master. Click on ledger and Edit to change it's account type.



Hope this helps.



On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 5:13 PM, Slava <as...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi there!
We're struggling to meet requirements of auditors and now we're stuck with discount issue. We need it to be shown in the invoice (as total discount amount) and we also need it to be accounted as expense, so we can print ledger of discounts. We're using discount column and find it very comfortable, because we often have different discounts in one invoice. Unfortunately this way doesn't give us possibility to see total discount and also to make discount ledger.
One solution could be to put discount line into Taxes and Charges, put actual type and tick Tax included in Basic Rate, but the program doesn't allow this.
Kindly suggest some solution.

Best wishes,
Slava



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Thanks and Regards,

Umair Sayyed
www.erpnext.com



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Dear Anand, 

Thanks for report code!
Although it is useful it not at all a solution. If we already have discount in the invoice (in lines), how can we make a JV for discount and book it as expense? Than balance will not tally. Correct way (at least for us) would be to book discount in the invoice itself so then we see discount in the invoice:
Net Total 1,497.50
Discount -404.32
Grand Total 1,093.18
Rounded Total 1,093.00
And each invoice makes 3 entries (without taxes) in the ledger: 3rd party-Sales, Discount-3rd party, 3rd party-Sales. 

I don’t know how common is this requirement (we’re audited by CAG India). If our case is unique and we need a customisation - pl let me know, how  can we order it.

Thanks,
Slava

On Monday, June 10, 2013 5:37:03 PM UTC+5:30, Anand Doshi wrote:
Hi Slava,

Oops! Incorrect fields. Please find the corrected query here: http://pastebin.com/0TbKq8FG

Thanks,
Anand.

On 10-Jun-2013, at 5:29 PM, Anand Doshi <an…@iwebnotes.com> wrote:

select name, (
select qty * (ifnull(ref_rate, 0) - ifnull(base_ref_rate, 0)) 
from tabSales Invoice Item 
where tabSales Invoice Item.parent = tabSales Invoice.name
) from tabSales Invoice where docstatus=1



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Hi Slava,

In the current system, the discounted value of the item is booked as Income.

From what I understand, you are looking to book the non-discounted (price list) amount of item as Income and the discount amount (price list value - discounted amount) as an Expense, which effectively is same as above.

Is this a requirement by the tax system? Or do you just want to keep track of discounts?

Thanks,
Anand.

On 11-Jun-2013, at 2:59 PM, Slava <as...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Anand, 
Thanks for report code!
Although it is useful it not at all a solution. If we already have discount in the invoice (in lines), how can we make a JV for discount and book it as expense? Than balance will not tally. Correct way (at least for us) would be to book discount in the invoice itself so then we see discount in the invoice:
Net Total 1,497.50
Discount -404.32
Grand Total 1,093.18
Rounded Total 1,093.00
And each invoice makes 3 entries (without taxes) in the ledger: 3rd party-Sales, Discount-3rd party, 3rd party-Sales. 

I don't know how common is this requirement (we're audited by CAG India). If our case is unique and we need a customisation - pl let me know, how  can we order it.

Thanks,
Slava

On Monday, June 10, 2013 5:37:03 PM UTC+5:30, Anand Doshi wrote:
Hi Slava,

Oops! Incorrect fields. Please find the corrected query here: http://pastebin.com/0TbKq8FG

Thanks,
Anand.

On 10-Jun-2013, at 5:29 PM, Anand Doshi <an...@iwebnotes.com> wrote:

select name, (
select qty * (ifnull(ref_rate, 0) - ifnull(base_ref_rate, 0)) 
from `tabSales Invoice Item` 
where `tabSales Invoice Item`.parent = `tabSales Invoice`.name
) from `tabSales Invoice` where docstatus=1




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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to erpnext-user-forum+un...@googlegroups.com.

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Anand,
Yes, your understanding is correct. This is the requirement of an external auditor.
Slava

On Tuesday, June 11, 2013 4:00:22 PM UTC+5:30, Anand Doshi wrote:
Hi Slava,

In the current system, the discounted value of the item is booked as Income.

From what I understand, you are looking to book the non-discounted (price list) amount of item as Income and the discount amount (price list value - discounted amount) as an Expense, which effectively is same as above.

Is this a requirement by the tax system? Or do you just want to keep track of discounts?

Thanks,
Anand.

On 11-Jun-2013, at 2:59 PM, Slava <as...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Anand, 
Thanks for report code!
Although it is useful it not at all a solution. If we already have discount in the invoice (in lines), how can we make a JV for discount and book it as expense? Than balance will not tally. Correct way (at least for us) would be to book discount in the invoice itself so then we see discount in the invoice:
Net Total 1,497.50
Discount -404.32
Grand Total 1,093.18
Rounded Total 1,093.00
And each invoice makes 3 entries (without taxes) in the ledger: 3rd party-Sales, Discount-3rd party, 3rd party-Sales. 

I don't know how common is this requirement (we're audited by CAG India). If our case is unique and we need a customisation - pl let me know, how  can we order it.

Thanks,
Slava

On Monday, June 10, 2013 5:37:03 PM UTC+5:30, Anand Doshi wrote:
Hi Slava,

Oops! Incorrect fields. Please find the corrected query here: http://pastebin.com/0TbKq8FG

Thanks,
Anand.

On 10-Jun-2013, at 5:29 PM, Anand Doshi <an...@iwebnotes.com> wrote:

select name, (
select qty * (ifnull(ref_rate, 0) - ifnull(base_ref_rate, 0)) 
from `tabSales Invoice Item` 
where `tabSales Invoice Item`.parent = `tabSales Invoice`.name
) from `tabSales Invoice` where docstatus=1




You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “ERPNext User’s Forum” group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to erpnext-user-forum+un...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

 

 

In that case, unless you have standard discounts on each Item, you won't be able to maintain Item wise discount.

If you have standard discounts, you can create an account with name like "Discount 10". It should be of type Charge, so that it can be added to taxes and charges. However, it should come under expense in the chart of accounts.

If certain items don't have -10% discount but have -5%, you can add that in the Item Tax table of the Item form.

In the invoice, you can have a "Discount 10" tax entry, of type On Net Total. You shouldn't put it as "Included In Rate", since this isn't an inclusive tax. You want the full value of Item Amount to be booked as Income (Cr.) and the Discount as Expense (Dr).

Since the rate is negative, it will reduce the grand total, thus acting as discount. Also, since the value will be negative the GL Entry will be a debit entry (hence a positive expense entry).

Else, if you don't have standard discounts, you can have an Actual type tax with account like "Flat Discount" and a negative value.

I think this should work. 

Thanks,
Anand.

On 11-Jun-2013, at 4:23 PM, Slava <as...@gmail.com> wrote:

Anand,
Yes, your understanding is correct. This is the requirement of an external auditor.
Slava

On Tuesday, June 11, 2013 4:00:22 PM UTC+5:30, Anand Doshi wrote:
Hi Slava,

In the current system, the discounted value of the item is booked as Income.

From what I understand, you are looking to book the non-discounted (price list) amount of item as Income and the discount amount (price list value - discounted amount) as an Expense, which effectively is same as above.

Is this a requirement by the tax system? Or do you just want to keep track of discounts?

Thanks,
Anand.

On 11-Jun-2013, at 2:59 PM, Slava <as...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Anand, 
Thanks for report code!
Although it is useful it not at all a solution. If we already have discount in the invoice (in lines), how can we make a JV for discount and book it as expense? Than balance will not tally. Correct way (at least for us) would be to book discount in the invoice itself so then we see discount in the invoice:
Net Total 1,497.50
Discount -404.32
Grand Total 1,093.18
Rounded Total 1,093.00
And each invoice makes 3 entries (without taxes) in the ledger: 3rd party-Sales, Discount-3rd party, 3rd party-Sales. 

I don't know how common is this requirement (we're audited by CAG India). If our case is unique and we need a customisation - pl let me know, how  can we order it.

Thanks,
Slava

On Monday, June 10, 2013 5:37:03 PM UTC+5:30, Anand Doshi wrote:
Hi Slava,

Oops! Incorrect fields. Please find the corrected query here: http://pastebin.com/0TbKq8FG

Thanks,
Anand.

On 10-Jun-2013, at 5:29 PM, Anand Doshi <an...@iwebnotes.com> wrote:

select name, (
select qty * (ifnull(ref_rate, 0) - ifnull(base_ref_rate, 0)) 
from `tabSales Invoice Item` 
where `tabSales Invoice Item`.parent = `tabSales Invoice`.name
) from `tabSales Invoice` where docstatus=1





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Yes, we have standard discounts. It would be real solution if each item can have specified discount. But as I just experimented if I have 5 items in the invoice and one of them has -5% specified in item table and I set -10% discount on net total, it doesn’t make any change, all items get -10% discount. Where’s my mistake?

On Tuesday, June 11, 2013 4:34:23 PM UTC+5:30, Anand Doshi wrote:

In that case, unless you have standard discounts on each Item, you won’t be able to maintain Item wise discount.

If you have standard discounts, you can create an account with name like “Discount 10”. It should be of type Charge, so that it can be added to taxes and charges. However, it should come under expense in the chart of accounts.

If certain items don’t have -10% discount but have -5%, you can add that in the Item Tax table of the Item form.

In the invoice, you can have a “Discount 10” tax entry, of type On Net Total. You shouldn’t put it as “Included In Rate”, since this isn’t an inclusive tax. You want the full value of Item Amount to be booked as Income (Cr.) and the Discount as Expense (Dr).

Since the rate is negative, it will reduce the grand total, thus acting as discount. Also, since the value will be negative the GL Entry will be a debit entry (hence a positive expense entry).

Else, if you don’t have standard discounts, you can have an Actual type tax with account like “Flat Discount” and a negative value.

I think this should work. 

Thanks,
Anand.

On 11-Jun-2013, at 4:23 PM, Slava <as…@gmail.com> wrote:

Anand,
Yes, your understanding is correct. This is the requirement of an external auditor.
Slava

On Tuesday, June 11, 2013 4:00:22 PM UTC+5:30, Anand Doshi wrote:
Hi Slava,

In the current system, the discounted value of the item is booked as Income.

From what I understand, you are looking to book the non-discounted (price list) amount of item as Income and the discount amount (price list value - discounted amount) as an Expense, which effectively is same as above.

Is this a requirement by the tax system? Or do you just want to keep track of discounts?

Thanks,
Anand.

On 11-Jun-2013, at 2:59 PM, Slava <as…@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Anand, 
Thanks for report code!
Although it is useful it not at all a solution. If we already have discount in the invoice (in lines), how can we make a JV for discount and book it as expense? Than balance will not tally. Correct way (at least for us) would be to book discount in the invoice itself so then we see discount in the invoice:
Net Total 1,497.50
Discount -404.32
Grand Total 1,093.18
Rounded Total 1,093.00
And each invoice makes 3 entries (without taxes) in the ledger: 3rd party-Sales, Discount-3rd party, 3rd party-Sales. 

I don’t know how common is this requirement (we’re audited by CAG India). If our case is unique and we need a customisation - pl let me know, how  can we order it.

Thanks,
Slava

On Monday, June 10, 2013 5:37:03 PM UTC+5:30, Anand Doshi wrote:
Hi Slava,

Oops! Incorrect fields. Please find the corrected query here: http://pastebin.com/0TbKq8FG

Thanks,
Anand.

On 10-Jun-2013, at 5:29 PM, Anand Doshi <an…@iwebnotes.com> wrote:

select name, (
select qty * (ifnull(ref_rate, 0) - ifnull(base_ref_rate, 0)) 
from tabSales Invoice Item 
where tabSales Invoice Item.parent = tabSales Invoice.name
) from tabSales Invoice where docstatus=1





You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “ERPNext User’s Forum” group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to erpnext-user-forum+un...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

 

 

Go to that particular Item and create a row in Item Tax table in the Item form for the discount account and rate as -5

Then try creating a new Sales Invoice and it should calculate discount at -5% only for that Item but at -10% for the rest of the items.

-Anand.

On 11-Jun-2013, at 5:01 PM, Slava <as...@gmail.com> wrote:

Yes, we have standard discounts. It would be real solution if each item can have specified discount. But as I just experimented if I have 5 items in the invoice and one of them has -5% specified in item table and I set -10% discount on net total, it doesn't make any change, all items get -10% discount. Where's my mistake?

On Tuesday, June 11, 2013 4:34:23 PM UTC+5:30, Anand Doshi wrote:
In that case, unless you have standard discounts on each Item, you won't be able to maintain Item wise discount.

If you have standard discounts, you can create an account with name like "Discount 10". It should be of type Charge, so that it can be added to taxes and charges. However, it should come under expense in the chart of accounts.

If certain items don't have -10% discount but have -5%, you can add that in the Item Tax table of the Item form.

In the invoice, you can have a "Discount 10" tax entry, of type On Net Total. You shouldn't put it as "Included In Rate", since this isn't an inclusive tax. You want the full value of Item Amount to be booked as Income (Cr.) and the Discount as Expense (Dr).

Since the rate is negative, it will reduce the grand total, thus acting as discount. Also, since the value will be negative the GL Entry will be a debit entry (hence a positive expense entry).

Else, if you don't have standard discounts, you can have an Actual type tax with account like "Flat Discount" and a negative value.

I think this should work. 

Thanks,
Anand.

On 11-Jun-2013, at 4:23 PM, Slava <as...@gmail.com> wrote:

Anand,
Yes, your understanding is correct. This is the requirement of an external auditor.
Slava

On Tuesday, June 11, 2013 4:00:22 PM UTC+5:30, Anand Doshi wrote:
Hi Slava,

In the current system, the discounted value of the item is booked as Income.

From what I understand, you are looking to book the non-discounted (price list) amount of item as Income and the discount amount (price list value - discounted amount) as an Expense, which effectively is same as above.

Is this a requirement by the tax system? Or do you just want to keep track of discounts?

Thanks,
Anand.

On 11-Jun-2013, at 2:59 PM, Slava <as...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Anand, 
Thanks for report code!
Although it is useful it not at all a solution. If we already have discount in the invoice (in lines), how can we make a JV for discount and book it as expense? Than balance will not tally. Correct way (at least for us) would be to book discount in the invoice itself so then we see discount in the invoice:
Net Total 1,497.50
Discount -404.32
Grand Total 1,093.18
Rounded Total 1,093.00
And each invoice makes 3 entries (without taxes) in the ledger: 3rd party-Sales, Discount-3rd party, 3rd party-Sales. 

I don't know how common is this requirement (we're audited by CAG India). If our case is unique and we need a customisation - pl let me know, how  can we order it.

Thanks,
Slava

On Monday, June 10, 2013 5:37:03 PM UTC+5:30, Anand Doshi wrote:
Hi Slava,

Oops! Incorrect fields. Please find the corrected query here: http://pastebin.com/0TbKq8FG

Thanks,
Anand.

On 10-Jun-2013, at 5:29 PM, Anand Doshi <an...@iwebnotes.com> wrote:

select name, (
select qty * (ifnull(ref_rate, 0) - ifnull(base_ref_rate, 0)) 
from `tabSales Invoice Item` 
where `tabSales Invoice Item`.parent = `tabSales Invoice`.name
) from `tabSales Invoice` where docstatus=1






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It works, just needed to create a new invoice. Thanks a lot, Anand!

As soon as you complete user manual I think you will have less queries like this :slight_smile:

Best of luck,
Slava

On Tuesday, June 11, 2013 5:22:55 PM UTC+5:30, Anand Doshi wrote:
Go to that particular Item and create a row in Item Tax table in the Item form for the discount account and rate as -5

Then try creating a new Sales Invoice and it should calculate discount at -5% only for that Item but at -10% for the rest of the items.

-Anand.

On 11-Jun-2013, at 5:01 PM, Slava <as…@gmail.com> wrote:

Yes, we have standard discounts. It would be real solution if each item can have specified discount. But as I just experimented if I have 5 items in the invoice and one of them has -5% specified in item table and I set -10% discount on net total, it doesn’t make any change, all items get -10% discount. Where’s my mistake?

On Tuesday, June 11, 2013 4:34:23 PM UTC+5:30, Anand Doshi wrote:
In that case, unless you have standard discounts on each Item, you won’t be able to maintain Item wise discount.

If you have standard discounts, you can create an account with name like “Discount 10”. It should be of type Charge, so that it can be added to taxes and charges. However, it should come under expense in the chart of accounts.

If certain items don’t have -10% discount but have -5%, you can add that in the Item Tax table of the Item form.

In the invoice, you can have a “Discount 10” tax entry, of type On Net Total. You shouldn’t put it as “Included In Rate”, since this isn’t an inclusive tax. You want the full value of Item Amount to be booked as Income (Cr.) and the Discount as Expense (Dr).

Since the rate is negative, it will reduce the grand total, thus acting as discount. Also, since the value will be negative the GL Entry will be a debit entry (hence a positive expense entry).

Else, if you don’t have standard discounts, you can have an Actual type tax with account like “Flat Discount” and a negative value.

I think this should work. 

Thanks,
Anand.

On 11-Jun-2013, at 4:23 PM, Slava <as…@gmail.com> wrote:

Anand,
Yes, your understanding is correct. This is the requirement of an external auditor.
Slava

On Tuesday, June 11, 2013 4:00:22 PM UTC+5:30, Anand Doshi wrote:
Hi Slava,

In the current system, the discounted value of the item is booked as Income.

From what I understand, you are looking to book the non-discounted (price list) amount of item as Income and the discount amount (price list value - discounted amount) as an Expense, which effectively is same as above.

Is this a requirement by the tax system? Or do you just want to keep track of discounts?

Thanks,
Anand.

On 11-Jun-2013, at 2:59 PM, Slava <as…@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Anand, 
Thanks for report code!
Although it is useful it not at all a solution. If we already have discount in the invoice (in lines), how can we make a JV for discount and book it as expense? Than balance will not tally. Correct way (at least for us) would be to book discount in the invoice itself so then we see discount in the invoice:
Net Total 1,497.50
Discount -404.32
Grand Total 1,093.18
Rounded Total 1,093.00
And each invoice makes 3 entries (without taxes) in the ledger: 3rd party-Sales, Discount-3rd party, 3rd party-Sales. 

I don’t know how common is this requirement (we’re audited by CAG India). If our case is unique and we need a customisation - pl let me know, how  can we order it.

Thanks,
Slava

On Monday, June 10, 2013 5:37:03 PM UTC+5:30, Anand Doshi wrote:
Hi Slava,

Oops! Incorrect fields. Please find the corrected query here: http://pastebin.com/0TbKq8FG

Thanks,
Anand.

On 10-Jun-2013, at 5:29 PM, Anand Doshi <an…@iwebnotes.com> wrote:

select name, (
select qty * (ifnull(ref_rate, 0) - ifnull(base_ref_rate, 0)) 
from tabSales Invoice Item 
where tabSales Invoice Item.parent = tabSales Invoice.name
) from tabSales Invoice where docstatus=1






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Slava,

You can also contribute to help us build the manual by writing a blog or something. We provide support to users on a voluntary basis, but it will really help us if users like yourself can take out a few minutes to write about their approach to solving a tricky situation.

best,
Rushabh




On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 10:48 AM, Slava <as...@gmail.com> wrote:
It works, just needed to create a new invoice. Thanks a lot, Anand!
As soon as you complete user manual I think you will have less queries like this :)

Best of luck,
Slava


On Tuesday, June 11, 2013 5:22:55 PM UTC+5:30, Anand Doshi wrote:
Go to that particular Item and create a row in Item Tax table in the Item form for the discount account and rate as -5

Then try creating a new Sales Invoice and it should calculate discount at -5% only for that Item but at -10% for the rest of the items.

-Anand.


On 11-Jun-2013, at 5:01 PM, Slava <as...@gmail.com> wrote:

Yes, we have standard discounts. It would be real solution if each item can have specified discount. But as I just experimented if I have 5 items in the invoice and one of them has -5% specified in item table and I set -10% discount on net total, it doesn't make any change, all items get -10% discount. Where's my mistake?

On Tuesday, June 11, 2013 4:34:23 PM UTC+5:30, Anand Doshi wrote:
In that case, unless you have standard discounts on each Item, you won't be able to maintain Item wise discount.

If you have standard discounts, you can create an account with name like "Discount 10". It should be of type Charge, so that it can be added to taxes and charges. However, it should come under expense in the chart of accounts.

If certain items don't have -10% discount but have -5%, you can add that in the Item Tax table of the Item form.

In the invoice, you can have a "Discount 10" tax entry, of type On Net Total. You shouldn't put it as "Included In Rate", since this isn't an inclusive tax. You want the full value of Item Amount to be booked as Income (Cr.) and the Discount as Expense (Dr).

Since the rate is negative, it will reduce the grand total, thus acting as discount. Also, since the value will be negative the GL Entry will be a debit entry (hence a positive expense entry).

Else, if you don't have standard discounts, you can have an Actual type tax with account like "Flat Discount" and a negative value.

I think this should work.

Thanks,
Anand.

On 11-Jun-2013, at 4:23 PM, Slava <as...@gmail.com> wrote:

Anand,
Yes, your understanding is correct. This is the requirement of an external auditor.
Slava

On Tuesday, June 11, 2013 4:00:22 PM UTC+5:30, Anand Doshi wrote:
Hi Slava,

In the current system, the discounted value of the item is booked as Income.

From what I understand, you are looking to book the non-discounted (price list) amount of item as Income and the discount amount (price list value - discounted amount) as an Expense, which effectively is same as above.

Is this a requirement by the tax system? Or do you just want to keep track of discounts?

Thanks,
Anand.

On 11-Jun-2013, at 2:59 PM, Slava <as...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Anand,
Thanks for report code!
Although it is useful it not at all a solution. If we already have discount in the invoice (in lines), how can we make a JV for discount and book it as expense? Than balance will not tally. Correct way (at least for us) would be to book discount in the invoice itself so then we see discount in the invoice:
Net Total 1,497.50
Discount -404.32
Grand Total 1,093.18
Rounded Total 1,093.00
And each invoice makes 3 entries (without taxes) in the ledger: 3rd party-Sales, Discount-3rd party, 3rd party-Sales.

I don't know how common is this requirement (we're audited by CAG India). If our case is unique and we need a customisation - pl let me know, how can we order it.

Thanks,
Slava

On Monday, June 10, 2013 5:37:03 PM UTC+5:30, Anand Doshi wrote:
Hi Slava,

Oops! Incorrect fields. Please find the corrected query here: http://pastebin.com/0TbKq8FG

Thanks,
Anand.

On 10-Jun-2013, at 5:29 PM, Anand Doshi <an...@iwebnotes.com> wrote:

select name, (
select qty * (ifnull(ref_rate, 0) - ifnull(base_ref_rate, 0))
from `tabSales Invoice Item`
where `tabSales Invoice Item`.parent = `tabSales Invoice`.name
) from `tabSales Invoice` where docstatus=1






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--



Twitter: @rushabh_mehta



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Rushabh,

I really appreciate what you guys doing and I would love to help you. I will think of what I can do.
Thanks,
Slava

On Wednesday, June 12, 2013 12:49:08 PM UTC+5:30, Rushabh Mehta wrote:
Slava,

You can also contribute to help us build the manual by writing a blog or something. We provide support to users on a voluntary basis, but it will really help us if users like yourself can take out a few minutes to write about their approach to solving a tricky situation.

best,
Rushabh




On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 10:48 AM, Slava <as...@gmail.com> wrote:
It works, just needed to create a new invoice. Thanks a lot, Anand!
As soon as you complete user manual I think you will have less queries like this :)

Best of luck,
Slava


On Tuesday, June 11, 2013 5:22:55 PM UTC+5:30, Anand Doshi wrote:
Go to that particular Item and create a row in Item Tax table in the Item form for the discount account and rate as -5

Then try creating a new Sales Invoice and it should calculate discount at -5% only for that Item but at -10% for the rest of the items.

-Anand.


On 11-Jun-2013, at 5:01 PM, Slava <as...@gmail.com> wrote:

Yes, we have standard discounts. It would be real solution if each item can have specified discount. But as I just experimented if I have 5 items in the invoice and one of them has -5% specified in item table and I set -10% discount on net total, it doesn't make any change, all items get -10% discount. Where's my mistake?

On Tuesday, June 11, 2013 4:34:23 PM UTC+5:30, Anand Doshi wrote:
In that case, unless you have standard discounts on each Item, you won't be able to maintain Item wise discount.

If you have standard discounts, you can create an account with name like "Discount 10". It should be of type Charge, so that it can be added to taxes and charges. However, it should come under expense in the chart of accounts.

If certain items don't have -10% discount but have -5%, you can add that in the Item Tax table of the Item form.

In the invoice, you can have a "Discount 10" tax entry, of type On Net Total. You shouldn't put it as "Included In Rate", since this isn't an inclusive tax. You want the full value of Item Amount to be booked as Income (Cr.) and the Discount as Expense (Dr).

Since the rate is negative, it will reduce the grand total, thus acting as discount. Also, since the value will be negative the GL Entry will be a debit entry (hence a positive expense entry).

Else, if you don't have standard discounts, you can have an Actual type tax with account like "Flat Discount" and a negative value.

I think this should work. 

Thanks,
Anand.

On 11-Jun-2013, at 4:23 PM, Slava <as...@gmail.com> wrote:

Anand,
Yes, your understanding is correct. This is the requirement of an external auditor.
Slava

On Tuesday, June 11, 2013 4:00:22 PM UTC+5:30, Anand Doshi wrote:
Hi Slava,

In the current system, the discounted value of the item is booked as Income.

From what I understand, you are looking to book the non-discounted (price list) amount of item as Income and the discount amount (price list value - discounted amount) as an Expense, which effectively is same as above.

Is this a requirement by the tax system? Or do you just want to keep track of discounts?

Thanks,
Anand.

On 11-Jun-2013, at 2:59 PM, Slava <as...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Anand, 
Thanks for report code!
Although it is useful it not at all a solution. If we already have discount in the invoice (in lines), how can we make a JV for discount and book it as expense? Than balance will not tally. Correct way (at least for us) would be to book discount in the invoice itself so then we see discount in the invoice:
Net Total 1,497.50
Discount -404.32
Grand Total 1,093.18
Rounded Total 1,093.00
And each invoice makes 3 entries (without taxes) in the ledger: 3rd party-Sales, Discount-3rd party, 3rd party-Sales. 

I don't know how common is this requirement (we're audited by CAG India). If our case is unique and we need a customisation - pl let me know, how  can we order it.

Thanks,
Slava

On Monday, June 10, 2013 5:37:03 PM UTC+5:30, Anand Doshi wrote:
Hi Slava,

Oops! Incorrect fields. Please find the corrected query here: http://pastebin.com/0TbKq8FG

Thanks,
Anand.

On 10-Jun-2013, at 5:29 PM, Anand Doshi <an...@iwebnotes.com> wrote:

select name, (
select qty * (ifnull(ref_rate, 0) - ifnull(base_ref_rate, 0)) 
from `tabSales Invoice Item` 
where `tabSales Invoice Item`.parent = `tabSales Invoice`.name
) from `tabSales Invoice` where docstatus=1






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--



Twitter: @rushabh_mehta



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Glad to see that some one else puts the discount issue on the agenda (again). This quite a fundamental issue (see my old, more than a year ago postings). It also seems to be difficult to “repair”.

If I give discounts the VAT is not correctly calculated and since the maximum deviation is may be an Euro or so I just "let it go"

Nevertheless I do feel that a system like ERPNEXT should allow to give discounts on either the VAT inclusive or VAT exclusive prices and than recalculate the VAT accordingly and allow the discounts to be recorded under an account head. This is not the case when discounts are applied directly in the ITEM table.

rgds Robert

On Monday, June 10, 2013 1:43:12 PM UTC+2, Slava wrote:
Hi there!
We’re struggling to meet requirements of auditors and now we’re stuck with discount issue. We need it to be shown in the invoice (as total discount amount) and we also need it to be accounted as expense, so we can print ledger of discounts. We’re using discount column and find it very comfortable, because we often have different discounts in one invoice. Unfortunately this way doesn’t give us possibility to see total discount and also to make discount ledger. 
One solution could be to put discount line into Taxes and Charges, put actual type and tick Tax included in Basic Rate, but the program doesn’t allow this. 
Kindly suggest some solution.

Best wishes,
Slava



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Hi Robert,

We have added this in the issues list here: https://github.com/webnotes/erpnext/issues/471

In short,
When giving discounts, there should be an option that the non-discounted item price be recorded as income and the discount be recorded as an expense. 

This feature is available in other ERPs like OpenERP, because they require taxes to be defined for each Item. 
As opposed to that, the design of ERPNext is to have a tax table in the transaction itself, instead of defining for each item. 
We had thought of changing this design a few months back, but it was too big a change and the current design had a workaround, as we discussed with you and Slava.

May be we could just have another column to book expense for discounts, in the item table. This seems a more actionable task.

@Robert and @Slava
Thanks for sharing this scenario. I believe such discussions will further the maturity of the ERPNext project.

-Anand.

On 13-Jun-2013, at 1:16 AM, robert <be...@gmail.com> wrote:

Glad to see that some one else puts the discount issue on the agenda (again). This quite a fundamental issue (see my old, more than a year ago postings). It also seems to be difficult to "repair".
If I give discounts the VAT is not correctly calculated and since the maximum deviation is may be an Euro or so I just "let it go"

Nevertheless I do feel that a system like ERPNEXT should allow to give discounts on either the VAT inclusive or VAT exclusive prices and than recalculate the VAT accordingly and allow the discounts to be recorded under an account head. This is not the case when discounts are applied directly in the ITEM table.

rgds Robert

On Monday, June 10, 2013 1:43:12 PM UTC+2, Slava wrote:
Hi there!
We're struggling to meet requirements of auditors and now we're stuck with discount issue. We need it to be shown in the invoice (as total discount amount) and we also need it to be accounted as expense, so we can print ledger of discounts. We're using discount column and find it very comfortable, because we often have different discounts in one invoice. Unfortunately this way doesn't give us possibility to see total discount and also to make discount ledger. 
One solution could be to put discount line into Taxes and Charges, put actual type and tick Tax included in Basic Rate, but the program doesn't allow this. 
Kindly suggest some solution.

Best wishes,
Slava



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Hi Anand, Robert & Slava,
 
I think a expense account for Discounts in Item Table would be a good way.
The big step to openerps-like tax in item is making the modelling worse if you have different taxes (like in germany)
depending on the POS. In Addition i descibe the scenarion with Default Discounts for Customer Groups, Customers or simply a Document totally discounted with a certain rate for its LifeCycle. 
 
So  i have a custom field for Default Discount in custom group that gets copied to its members
Default Discount (custom script) and may be overwritten there. In every DocType i have custom field Default discount Field that gets filled
with customers Default discount or may be manually filled or overwritten for this doc and populates over erpnext's mechanics from Quotation to Sales Order, Sales Invoice...
This Default Discount in the doc gets written to evey row in the items table if its unwritten.
So i have a customer with 10Percent Default Discount and every item gets 10% Discount untill i see an item thas i want to be only 5% and than i overwrite it and custom script
will never fill in Default Discount for this item again. At this opoint i use the max-discount field in items also to checked whether the automatically inserted Discount is to high an throw an alert.
 
Now all my Items have Default Tax - some 7% some with 19% and Documents Default tax master respects this. Now when i make an Invoice for a POS thats Needs to be totally 19% i get a different Sales Tax master to the Document, items Default tax isn't respected anylonger and erverything gets calculated fine with the discounts and 19% taxes.
 
I hope the descriptiopn of my scenario helps for your design discussion.
The hint in the Manual that says Sales Taxes .. could be used for Discounts ist missleading i think. 
 
 
Thanks, Sören
 



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As an example  i added my custom script for Sales Invoice.
I know that this is not a nice way of doing it but i really wanted to force the mechanics i doing what i needed for testing purpose:
The refresh function could be ígnored as i had to add a way of using gross as net prices for special customers.
(simplification of different Price Lists.)
 
In the update_fname_table the following is adding Discount to item table:
 
       if(doc.my_discount>0&&doc.my_discount<99&&flt(cl[i].adj_rate)==0) {
     set_multiple(tname, cl[i].name, {
      'adj_rate': doc.my_discount
     }, fname);
    }
 
At this point is refinement needed because there maybe one items that should be 0 Discount.
I Image a flag "no_discount" that could be added.
 
In the calc_doc_values there was a Little Adaption because of misscalculated net_totals on tax-included-item-prices
that i mentioned earlier:
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!searchin/erpnext-user-forum/Sören/erpnext-user-forum/0vgzMCeSJHo/PBJxksg51DgJ

 



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The hint in the Manual that says Sales Taxes … could be used for Discounts ist missleading i think. >>> agree 200%


** Like in Germany we have to VATs in NL, 6% and 21 % (yessss!!!). BUT my taxes work fine.

May be I can use Soeren’s script.

One tip other tip Europeans may use. In the tax table all taxes are entered twice , positive and negative.
I buy a lot in Germany and that the Intereuropean tax template records the taxes in to account heads that level out to zero. So i do record the ïntercommunity VAT but the accounting sum is zero (since i do not pay vat when i buy in germany or elsewhere in the EU



On Monday, June 10, 2013 1:43:12 PM UTC+2, Slava wrote:
Hi there!
We’re struggling to meet requirements of auditors and now we’re stuck with discount issue. We need it to be shown in the invoice (as total discount amount) and we also need it to be accounted as expense, so we can print ledger of discounts. We’re using discount column and find it very comfortable, because we often have different discounts in one invoice. Unfortunately this way doesn’t give us possibility to see total discount and also to make discount ledger. 
One solution could be to put discount line into Taxes and Charges, put actual type and tick Tax included in Basic Rate, but the program doesn’t allow this. 
Kindly suggest some solution.

Best wishes,
Slava



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