Buying Module and Associated Transactions--->Some Suggestions & Understanding

Hi,


I have recently started to use the Buying Module and my understanding from the process work flow is below:
  • Purchase Order (in Buying Module) ===> This is the first step in making a Purchase Item but it is not mandatory
  • Purchase Receipt (in Stock Module) ===> This is generally the second step in the Purchase Cycle which would update the stock of the receipt item but not the accounts (Basically this process is for receiving the material)
  • Purchase Invoice (in Accounts Module) ===> This is the invoice which we receive from the supplier and the accounts are updated as per this but note that no stock is update with this entry.
Now the process seems to be simple, but when we talk about India then the process gets very complicated…because of the various TAX AUTHORITIES in INDIA.

Now for a dealer (re-seller) the system is kind of perfect but for a Manufacturer like us the system is somewhat lacking in one aspect. I would try and explain the whole scenario. 

Like we Buy Item “Oil” from a re-seller “ABC” so the VAT and EXCISE is charged by “ABC” and the Input VAT and Input EXCISE is then adjusted against the Output VAT and EXCISE. (This is simple)
But say we Buy “Oil” from a re-seller “ABC” but if the reseller “ABC” is not registered in the EXCISE then generally the manufacturer of “OIL” would dispatch the material to us and we would take the CREDIT of the EXCISE and the re-seller “ABC” would give us an Invoice with only SALES TAX and then we would enter the PURCHASE RECEIPT with Vendor as “ABC” and the CONSIGNOR as the original manufacturer. 

Now I see that there is no provision to enter the consignor details in Purchase Receipt or even in the Purchase Invoice.

My recommendation is that just like in a Sale Invoice where we have BILLING ADDRESS & SHIPPING ADDRESS we should have the VENDOR DETAILS as well as the CONSIGNOR DETAILS in a Purchase related docs as well, this would make ERPNEXT inline with the STATUTORY requirements of INDIAN Tax Authorities.

Hi Aditya,

Thanks for your valuable suggestion.

Capturing consignor details in Purchase Receipt and Purchase Invoice will add some extra fields in the form, which are not relevant for other non-manufacturing companies and companies not from India. Those forms are already clattered with so many fields, and we are fighting to reduce the number of fields.


So, We will request you to capture consignor details by adding custom fields.


Regards,
Nabin Hait


On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 8:26 AM, Aditya Duggal <ad…@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,

I have recently started to use the Buying Module and my understanding from the process work flow is below:
  • Purchase Order (in Buying Module) ===> This is the first step in making a Purchase Item but it is not mandatory
  • Purchase Receipt (in Stock Module) ===> This is generally the second step in the Purchase Cycle which would update the stock of the receipt item but not the accounts (Basically this process is for receiving the material)
  • Purchase Invoice (in Accounts Module) ===> This is the invoice which we receive from the supplier and the accounts are updated as per this but note that no stock is update with this entry.
Now the process seems to be simple, but when we talk about India then the process gets very complicated.....because of the various TAX AUTHORITIES in INDIA.

Now for a dealer (re-seller) the system is kind of perfect but for a Manufacturer like us the system is somewhat lacking in one aspect. I would try and explain the whole scenario.

Like we Buy Item "Oil" from a re-seller "ABC" so the VAT and EXCISE is charged by "ABC" and the Input VAT and Input EXCISE is then adjusted against the Output VAT and EXCISE. (This is simple)
But say we Buy "Oil" from a re-seller "ABC" but if the reseller "ABC" is not registered in the EXCISE then generally the manufacturer of "OIL" would dispatch the material to us and we would take the CREDIT of the EXCISE and the re-seller "ABC" would give us an Invoice with only SALES TAX and then we would enter the PURCHASE RECEIPT with Vendor as "ABC" and the CONSIGNOR as the original manufacturer.

Now I see that there is no provision to enter the consignor details in Purchase Receipt or even in the Purchase Invoice.

My recommendation is that just like in a Sale Invoice where we have BILLING ADDRESS & SHIPPING ADDRESS we should have the VENDOR DETAILS as well as the CONSIGNOR DETAILS in a Purchase related docs as well, this would make ERPNEXT inline with the STATUTORY requirements of INDIAN Tax Authorities.



--
Regards,
Nabin Hait
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ERPNext - World's most affordable ERP - (Rs 299 / $7 per user per month)


@aditya, that will further affect making a custom form viz. RG23 register, etc…

@nabin, I guess this is a basic purchase invoice requirement scenanrio everywhere in india atleast.

Regards,
mahesh

On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 12:03 PM, Nabin Hait <na...@iwebnotes.com> wrote:
Hi Aditya,

Thanks for your valuable suggestion.

Capturing consignor details in Purchase Receipt and Purchase Invoice will add some extra fields in the form, which are not relevant for other non-manufacturing companies and companies not from India. Those forms are already clattered with so many fields, and we are fighting to reduce the number of fields.


So, We will request you to capture consignor details by adding custom fields.


Regards,
Nabin Hait




On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 8:26 AM, Aditya Duggal <ad…@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,

I have recently started to use the Buying Module and my understanding from the process work flow is below:
  • Purchase Order (in Buying Module) ===> This is the first step in making a Purchase Item but it is not mandatory
  • Purchase Receipt (in Stock Module) ===> This is generally the second step in the Purchase Cycle which would update the stock of the receipt item but not the accounts (Basically this process is for receiving the material)
  • Purchase Invoice (in Accounts Module) ===> This is the invoice which we receive from the supplier and the accounts are updated as per this but note that no stock is update with this entry.
Now the process seems to be simple, but when we talk about India then the process gets very complicated.....because of the various TAX AUTHORITIES in INDIA.

Now for a dealer (re-seller) the system is kind of perfect but for a Manufacturer like us the system is somewhat lacking in one aspect. I would try and explain the whole scenario.

Like we Buy Item "Oil" from a re-seller "ABC" so the VAT and EXCISE is charged by "ABC" and the Input VAT and Input EXCISE is then adjusted against the Output VAT and EXCISE. (This is simple)
But say we Buy "Oil" from a re-seller "ABC" but if the reseller "ABC" is not registered in the EXCISE then generally the manufacturer of "OIL" would dispatch the material to us and we would take the CREDIT of the EXCISE and the re-seller "ABC" would give us an Invoice with only SALES TAX and then we would enter the PURCHASE RECEIPT with Vendor as "ABC" and the CONSIGNOR as the original manufacturer.

Now I see that there is no provision to enter the consignor details in Purchase Receipt or even in the Purchase Invoice.

My recommendation is that just like in a Sale Invoice where we have BILLING ADDRESS & SHIPPING ADDRESS we should have the VENDOR DETAILS as well as the CONSIGNOR DETAILS in a Purchase related docs as well, this would make ERPNEXT inline with the STATUTORY requirements of INDIAN Tax Authorities.



--
Regards,
Nabin Hait

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ERPNext - World’s most affordable ERP - (Rs 299 / $7 per user per month)




@Nabin: I cannot agree more with Mahesh about the requirement of the consignor part in the Purchase Invoice or Receipts but I also agree that this kind of a silly arrangement of taxation is only available in India and my main motive to start this thread was to get this on record. I also wanted to know whether this thing is going to be done by the ERPNEXT team or would be done at my end. So I guess I would add a few fields and scripts to make it working for myself.


@Mahesh: I guess you are correct with regards to the tax laws but I am sure this thing would be gone once GST is implemented in India (if at all it is). So adding and cluttering the purchase receipt or invoice is not really necessary for common users since the product is for general use and customisations are for particular needs.<br>
On Wednesday, March 7, 2012 8:26:37 AM UTC+5:30, Aditya Duggal wrote:
Hi,

I have recently started to use the Buying Module and my understanding from the process work flow is below:
  • Purchase Order (in Buying Module) ===> This is the first step in making a Purchase Item but it is not mandatory
  • Purchase Receipt (in Stock Module) ===> This is generally the second step in the Purchase Cycle which would update the stock of the receipt item but not the accounts (Basically this process is for receiving the material)
  • Purchase Invoice (in Accounts Module) ===> This is the invoice which we receive from the supplier and the accounts are updated as per this but note that no stock is update with this entry.
Now the process seems to be simple, but when we talk about India then the process gets very complicated…because of the various TAX AUTHORITIES in INDIA.

Now for a dealer (re-seller) the system is kind of perfect but for a Manufacturer like us the system is somewhat lacking in one aspect. I would try and explain the whole scenario. 

Like we Buy Item “Oil” from a re-seller “ABC” so the VAT and EXCISE is charged by “ABC” and the Input VAT and Input EXCISE is then adjusted against the Output VAT and EXCISE. (This is simple)
But say we Buy “Oil” from a re-seller “ABC” but if the reseller “ABC” is not registered in the EXCISE then generally the manufacturer of “OIL” would dispatch the material to us and we would take the CREDIT of the EXCISE and the re-seller “ABC” would give us an Invoice with only SALES TAX and then we would enter the PURCHASE RECEIPT with Vendor as “ABC” and the CONSIGNOR as the original manufacturer. 

Now I see that there is no provision to enter the consignor details in Purchase Receipt or even in the Purchase Invoice.

My recommendation is that just like in a Sale Invoice where we have BILLING ADDRESS & SHIPPING ADDRESS we should have the VENDOR DETAILS as well as the CONSIGNOR DETAILS in a Purchase related docs as well, this would make ERPNEXT inline with the STATUTORY requirements of INDIAN Tax Authorities.

Hi there on the subcontinent,

Taxes remain a headache. I had to do al lot of experiments, testing,
and lots of chat,skype,email contact with the erpnext team to get the
European Union taxes schedules “built into erpnext”, to such an extend
that I have to enter two VAT entries per Item one positive and one
negative.

rgds Robert

On Mar 7, 3:22 pm, Aditya Duggal ad...@gmail.com wrote:

@Nabin: I cannot agree more with Mahesh about the requirement of the
consignor part in the Purchase Invoice or Receipts but I also agree that
this kind of a silly arrangement of taxation is only available in India and
my main motive to start this thread was to get this on record. I also
wanted to know whether this thing is going to be done by the ERPNEXT team
or would be done at my end. So I guess I would add a few fields and scripts
to make it working for myself.

@Mahesh: I guess you are correct with regards to the tax laws but I am sure
this thing would be gone once GST is implemented in India (if at all it
is). So adding and cluttering the purchase receipt or invoice is not really
necessary for common users since the product is for general use and
customisations are for particular needs.\

On Wednesday, March 7, 2012 8:26:37 AM UTC+5:30, Aditya Duggal wrote:

Hi,

I have recently started to use the Buying Module and my understanding from
the process work flow is below:

  • Purchase Order (in Buying Module) ===> This is the first step in
    making a Purchase Item but it is not mandatory
  • Purchase Receipt (in Stock Module) ===> This is generally the second
    step in the Purchase Cycle which would update the stock of the receipt item
    but not the accounts (Basically this process is for receiving the material)
  • Purchase Invoice (in Accounts Module) ===> This is the invoice which
    we receive from the supplier and the accounts are updated as per this but
    note that no stock is update with this entry.

Now the process seems to be simple, but when we talk about India then the
process gets very complicated…because of the various TAX AUTHORITIES in
INDIA.

Now for a dealer (re-seller) the system is kind of perfect but for a
Manufacturer like us the system is somewhat lacking in one aspect. I would
try and explain the whole scenario.

Like we Buy Item “Oil” from a re-seller “ABC” so the VAT and EXCISE is
charged by “ABC” and the Input VAT and Input EXCISE is then adjusted
against the Output VAT and EXCISE. (This is simple)
But say we Buy “Oil” from a re-seller “ABC” but if the reseller “ABC” is
not registered in the EXCISE then generally the manufacturer of “OIL” would
dispatch the material to us and we would take the CREDIT of the EXCISE and
the re-seller “ABC” would give us an Invoice with only SALES TAX and then
we would enter the PURCHASE RECEIPT with Vendor as “ABC” and the CONSIGNOR
as the original manufacturer.

Now I see that there is no provision to enter the consignor details in
Purchase Receipt or even in the Purchase Invoice.

My recommendation is that just like in a Sale Invoice where we have
BILLING ADDRESS & SHIPPING ADDRESS we should have the VENDOR DETAILS as
well as the CONSIGNOR DETAILS in a Purchase related docs as well, this
would make ERPNEXT inline with the STATUTORY requirements of INDIAN Tax
Authorities.